The UPA government has chosen to woo Baba Ramdev. You are a part of his campaign. Why is the government so keen on turning the Baba into a national icon?
They have sensed the mood of the people. Today, on the issue of corruption, Anna Hazare and Baba Ramdev are icons through whom people visualise and aspire for a change. Because of people’s pressure, the government is keen to solve the problems, so that it won’t have to face a spill-over effect.
Do you think the UPA is more comfortable talking about corruption with Baba Ramdev than with the civil society or the BJP?
Why should they talk to the Bharatiya Janata Party? The BJP has lost the moral strength to combat corruption or to provide counters to the problem. Unlike the BJP, Anna Hazare and Baba Ramdev have a moral authority to talk about these issues. People have faith in them. So naturally, they are the genuine, though non-political, apolitical opposition to the ruling class.
But then, wasn’t the government more reluctant to accept Hazare’s demand? Their reaction to Baba Ramdev was so fast.
That is not true. They initiated talks with Annaji and he responded in a very democratic manner. There was bound to be a stalemate. You see, there are two contentious issues in the Lokpal bill: one, the inclusion of the judiciary and the other to bring the PMO under its purview. In my view, these things should have been sorted out at the earliest. But now it is lingering on. As it happens, the status-quoist and corrupt state and the state machinery always try to tire out the people through negotiations. That is their strategy.
You took a sabbatical from the Eiffel Tower of the right-wing intelligentsia. Are you coming back to politics, without being associated with the BJP?
It is a far-fetched idea. But, when I took study-leave, I had hoped to study the impact of globalisation on society, polity, economy and culture, [and] if needed, provide an alternative. When I was done [with it], my recommendations were such that I first involved myself in academics and constructive activities. Later, I took [part in] agitations, [which were] aimed at systemic change. My commitment was to bring back politics to the issues of values rather than getting it further [degenerated into a] crass power-game. Since all the political parties are pro-rich and pro-foreign, there is a need to occupy the opposition pro-Bharat and pro-poor [space]. I feel that the issues of corruption and illegal money stashed abroad can bring about systemic change in the polity.
Is the Rashtriya Swabhiman Manch and Baba Ramdev that political front which will be the alternative?
I do not know about Baba Ramdev. He has very clearly stated that he does not look beyond his movement. He has also made it amply clear that there is no way he will enter political life. But, as far as I am concerned, I am determined to bring back politics to issues and values. As I said, I will not allow politics to be a crass power game. What exactly will be the shape of the political front is unclear: it could be a confederation of forces working on common values.
And, Baba Ramdev will be on your side. He has a huge mass following.
Emotionally, those who are nationalists will be on our side. But how much will the support be, I am not sure.
You have been a major opponent of liberalisation, privatisation and globalisation. How do you see the recent scams in the backdrop of a model of free-market economy?
Unfortunately, I stand vindicated to see that crime and corruption have achieved globalised proportions. It was natural, especially given that human values get trampled by lust for money, consumerism and permissiveness of life itself. These things are natural corollaries: corruption, hawala, tax havens, etc. are all direct results of a globalisation.
What do you have to say about the BJP’s recent electoral disaster? They won no seats in three states. In Assam they got five. In Karnataka several scams are haunting the party.
They have bid good-bye to ideology and idealism and have ended up as a party of candidates who merely want power. Power, instead of being seen as a tool of social transformation, is being seen as a goal. There is a disconnect between the leadership and the common cadre and supporters. The supporters expect the party to go in one direction, but the BJP leadership is ambiguous and riddled with clashes of ambition. As far as a responsible opposition is concerned, I have psychologically rejected the BJP.
There is a massive leadership crisis in the BJP.
It is all logical and natural. There will be some more infighting; some more contenders will be thrown up, while others will be pushed aside. The game will continue. The party has lost its goal and the responsibility aspect of politics. They have become a Congress in the saffron colour out of their desire for power politics and pragmatism.
Narendra Modi’s “magic” appears to have disappeared. Has he lost the way or is he too right-wing?
I have not yet rejected him. However, what works in Gujarat might not work elsewhere. Socio-historical perspective of that section of Bharat also needs to be taken into account. The highly urbanised Gujarat, also exposed to other countries, provides a certain direction to aspirations and response to progress. So, what can work in Gujarat need not wo
rk well in Uttar Pradesh and Bihar. One has to take that into consideration.
What about the Modi brand of politics? Does it work well with people?
I do not know what kind of politics Modi follows. Politics is a holistic phenomenon. The Congress is so worried and always so sad. They are not being able to cash on situations or play the role of a responsible opposition. According to them there are so many burning issues they could have taken up. But, they have failed at being an effective opposition. They perhaps lack proper leadership. The state leadership needs to have the ability to communicate in the language of the region.
WikiLeaks revealed that Arun Jaitley saw hindutva as nothing more than an opportunistic ploy. In fact, it has been a long time since any BJP leader uttered the word hindutva. Does hindutva make bad politics?
I do not want to single our Shri Arun Jaitley. But, the psychology and the bent of mind of the whole party leadership is similar. Only electoral gains matter to them. Neither does ideology nor idealism matters anymore. Nothing can be done about that party that has no ideology. If you present a saffron Congress in place of a tri-colour Congress, you leave no choice to people. They will choose the tri-colour Congress, as it has happened in Assam. The BJP lost the opportunity to raise the issue of infiltrators in Assam.
Do you think the BJP will be able to get out of this rabbit hole?
I do not know. Neither have I applied my mind on it. It is for them to ponder over. A country does not wait for any particular political party.
A troubling issue for the RSS has been the allegations of Hindu terror by fringe groups and individuals. The RSS had to distance itself from at least two of the accused. Are there elements in the Sangh that are beyond control?
Nothing judgmental can be said about it. There have been only accusations. Tangible evidences have not been found, even in the case of Pragya Singh Thakur. Accusations can come out of political tactics adopted by particular parties to put down others. That’s how I feel about the RSS. The organisation has branches all over the country. It is possible that one or two of them have wavered. But, that cannot tarnish the image of an organisation like the RSS.
Is extremism inevitable?
I have not said anything for you to reach such a conclusion. I have always stated that the RSS is a nationalist organisation. That is their base system. That is how they have kept working for the country.
What do you think is the future of right-wing politics in India?
Right and left-wing, I feel, are mere euphemisms. The politics needs to be pro-Bharat.
